Hey, Dom. Uh, thank you so much for coming along. I want to say I nearly said having me because technically you’re having me in your studio, but thank you for coming along to my podcast, uh, the Smashing PBs podcast. I’m honored to be a guest on your podcast. Oh, maybe I secretly uh set up this whole thing here just so I could nab you as a guest. You’re playing the long game. Oh my god. All I wanted was Dom Harvey and now I’ve got him. No. Well, the honor is all mine. Um Yeah. It’s I’ve been watching you do your podcast. Yeah. And it’s been really neat watching your progression from episode one to where we are now. I must say it’s one of those things you do feel more comfortable the more hours you put it into it. And thinking about the number of hours you’ve put into your, you know, personal podcast, the Dom Harvey podcast, you Yeah. You must feel It’s very comfortable here. Yeah. Yeah. But you constantly improve, though. Yes. Are you familiar with the 10,000 hour theory? No. Tell me about it. Okay. So, there’s an author called um Malcolm Gladwell. Okay. um he’s written some incredible books like The Tipping Point and Outliers and he talks about how it takes 10,000 hours of practice to get to pretty much sort of expert level, not expert level, but um like as good as what you’re going to get. Okay. And after that, the gains are just very very um incremental. And you think you break it down 10,000 hours is a long time to be playing a guitar, running, learning a language, you know, working on a career, whatever it is. So I think with the podcast I’m probably at like maybe a thousand hours now. Okay. I see. So I still have a long way to go. Still got a long way to go. Yeah. 10 times that far out. That’s I mean you basically that’s like your nearly your whole life then. Um by the time you’re an old man you’ll be like I’m an expert. What do you mean by Thank you. By the time I’m an old man one day in the far far. Um well look I obviously you’ve got the Dom Harvey podcast now but I’m actually I would love to hear more about Runners Only, your first podcast. So, how did you Start Runners Only? Right. Okay. So, I I finished on radio after doing um radio for like 30 Yeah, breakfast radio in particular for like 30 years. Yes. And I just wanted a break and I had no idea what I was going to do. I I was even like thinking, oh, Maybe I’ll just sort of like to retire and not do anything. And then after a few months off, I was like very bored and I bought some podcasting equipment and I thought I’ll do a podcast. So, the idea was it was going to be sort of like a passion project, but hopefully something bigger than that, but I really didn’t know. So, I thought, what am I passionate about? Like, what’s a niche that I can have that would make my podcast different? So, I went with a running theme. Um, cuz I thought even even back then, I thought I could talk to elite runners, but also everyone’s got some connection with running, even if it’s hating it because they were, you know, finished the last in the school cross country or whatever it happens to be. So, that’s how the podcast started. And then after maybe a year or 18 months as runners only, it sort of um sort of deviated off course and I I wasn’t talking to a lot of the guests about running anymore. Did you find it was like it was getting difficult to find people that fitted the niche or were you still finding people that were interested in running but then asking them other stuff? Yeah, the running became like a smaller and smaller part of it. Um, and it even became a barrier to entry for some people. Like I’d ask say Dame Susan Devoy to come on and she’s like, “Oh, I’m I can’t I’m not a runner.” And then you have to say to them, “Oh, it’s not really a running thing anymore.” So it just sort of um organically I suppose outgrew what it was when it started. Okay. So why did you choose to run? What’s your relationship with running? Oh, I love it. Well, running’s just been like a cornerstone of my life really. Um from a young age. Did you run when you were a kid? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so mom was a runner. Um, so when when running was first invented There was um Yeah. Actually, running was invented by a New Zealander. This guy Yeah. Which seems like a crazy thing because it’s just extreme walking. But There’s a guy called Arthur Liard who’s like the godfather of running. So New Zealand was the first I think the first country in the world that where people ran just for fun, not for competition. So like going back to when it was a leisurely activity. Yeah. So that was my mom. So in the early ‘ 80s when I was like a little kid um she’d have this jogging group and I’d be in the crash there or in the daycare center there. So I just sort of grew up around running then ran in school. Then when I was 14 I ran uh my first full marathon at 14. Yeah. That’s incredible. Yeah. Without any sort of real training or anything. But you know when you’re that age if your mum’s doing stuff you think well *** It can’t be How hard can it be? So I ran a marathon then. Who did you run it with? That’s a long time for a 14-year-old to be running. Yeah. Oh, mainly on my own. There was there was um like yeah, some adults that were running that sort of helped me along. Um but yeah, mostly just you just did it. Just sort of on my own. And then I was part of the like the Harriers group in school, but I was never fast or good. Um so I always felt like I was letting the team down. Um so I stopped running at that point. um just cuz I I don’t know when when you’re in when you’re in school, it’s all about sort of the the comp competition aspect and I I just didn’t feel like I was good enough. When you’re part of the Harriers, if you if you sign up and you do all the training, this is at Palmer North Boys High, you do all the training and you turn up to all the sessions, then they send you to the school, secondary schools, cross country and road race. Um but I was never in the top 100 or anything like that. I just felt like I was I was a bit *** which was not good for your self-esteem. So, I left school, got into radio, quit running altogether, I got real fat during my 20s. Oh, wow. And then, um, when I was 30, I was like, “Oh, I’m going to start running again for the the only reason really was to lose weight.” So, I’d go for like a 5k run. Then I’d get home, get completely naked, stand on the scales, and be bitterly disappointed that I hadn’t lost all the weight. It’s funny now, like you spend 10 years putting on weight, and then you think you’re going to lose it in one 5K run. But I I kept with the I kept with the running. And then after um after maybe a month, two months, I was still overweight, but I um I wasn’t obsessed with the scales anymore. Like there was like a definite shift in my mood and my self-esteem and I just had this sort of peace and well-being about me. So I kept running, kept running further and then um yeah, eventually, you know, the the body weight just returned to a healthy weight range. It is um it’s quite incredible um how a lot of people do pick up running again as adults to lose weight because I still to this day that’s why I did it too. I was um I was I am 19 years old. I couldn’t afford the gym. I stopped growing you know I was I stopped being a teenager and growing but I was eating the same amount probably worse food um cuz I was now flatting. So I was looking after myself and buying whatever I felt I wanted to eat. And then I couldn’t believe I’d put on weight. And then uh my flatmate said um well why don’t you go for a run and for me I was what you described you know one of the last kids in cross country like obviously you have to do I did other sports and now you got to run around for net and all sorts but I just I was like that’s not me but he’s like oh well you know it’s the easiest way to lose weight and I thought okay I’ll give it a go and I just did round the block every day for 7 months the same thing every day and it was the same like at first I was bitterly disappointed like you I didn’t lose the weight straight away but then after a while you stop worrying about that cuz you just feel so good and then it just suddenly happens suddenly like I think I went away for the summer I came back and my friends are like was it just kind of like but you don’t feel it on a daily basis it just sort of happens yeah and it becomes part of your life that’s so funny that our our stories are are similar yeah I was the same so living at home then suddenly I was earning money and I was working in radio just doing the over midnight to 6 show on a station in Palmyra North and it I could suddenly eat whatever I wanted like I wasn’t you know just fed meals from my parents So I every night on the way to work, I’d go to the supermarket. I’d buy um you know those oven pizzas like a leaning tower pizza. I’d buy one of them and a 1.5 Coke. Oh god. And I was eating that every night like it was absurd. I look back now it’s you just don’t know because like even though your parents like raised you not to eat that stuff, you you know when it’s your decision, you just want to give it a go and see what happens. It tastes good. I’ve got the money. Why not? Um and yeah, but since then running’s just been like a cornerstone of my life. Yeah. I couldn’t imagine it not being part of my life. And nowadays, how often do you run? Um, most days. Really? Yeah, most days. Like, um, I’m not training for anything specifically at the moment, like in terms of an event. So, but I’ll still get up at 6:00 in the morning and go for a 10k run or or go to the gym every second day. Wow. That’s amazing. Yeah. I just love it. I love it. If I don’t get some sort of daily movement in and it’s usually running, I just don’t feel, you know, I I don’t feel the way I should. Yeah. Yep. I hear you. Um, what would a day look like where you didn’t run? What would happen? What do you feel? I I don’t beat myself up too much about it if I miss a day, but if I go for like two or three days without doing something Yeah. Like you can definitely tell. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People are scratchy, a little bit a little bit on edge. Something’s up with a dump. Maybe a bit snappy with people around me. Isn’t it incredible how cardio is so related to your mood? like it doesn’t it is I find it fascinating that it’s so physical and you’re moving yourself you know and it’s hard physically but then for some reason it has this like halo effect on your actual mood and your outlook it’s yeah yeah I’m I’m a very slow learner but it’s probably only been like the last 5 years that I’ve realized um just the the benefits from running and any sort of movement actually from the neck up like you know you’re well aware of you know you the effect it has on your body and you know from an aerobic perspective but in terms of um yeah the serotonin and the endorphins, the mental health aspect, it’s massive. What when you say from the neck up so what um yeah what have you learned is it just on yourself or have you done additional reading? Um yeah additional reading as well but just yeah just my own mood and wellbeing. Yeah. No just like the benefits from exercise like if if doctors the the benefits that anyone get if you could get that in a pill form like everyone in the world would be taking it right 100%. And it’s just on that, the funny thing is is I guess as a runner as well, I know the benefits too. I know that feeling. I know that I’m like more snappy with my kids. I’m just like everything feels harder. That’s probably why I’m in a bit of a mood today. I haven’t run in a couple of days. But Anyway, this puts you in a good mood. This puts me in a good mood. Oh my god. I know. But um but I I feel like um the funny thing is is it also if someone doesn’t run, you can’t convince them of like the highs. Like you can’t Yeah. It’s it’s they it just feels like that hard slog that you get when you’re not when you haven’t when you’re not used to that slog. So, you know that first run again after a long time or something where you just like your heart is on fire or your throat is on fire and you’re hot and you’re flustered and you can’t breathe and everything. I think that is like the focus for so many people who have a barrier to starting and it’s only after you’ve done it in a while you realize, oh, those feelings pass and actually you Can you keep going? you can push through it and you know you can taper it, you can like you don’t have to push as hard or you can change the distance but it’s uh it’s that barrier to entry for a lot of people and I think it must come down to like those school runs where where nobody told you about the positive benefits and just trying to see if you’re going to be the first kid to come through. Yeah. Yeah, you’re 100% right. But if like I mean you’re a you’re a parent like for kids it’s the most natural thing ever. Like when kids are in a good mood they run. That’s true. Like if you if your kids are playing in the lounge and there’s something they want to get from their bedroom, they’ll run there. They’ll sprint there to get it. And then I don’t know, somewhere along the line, We just stop. We stop running. But it’s the most natural. You’re so right. Natural thing. That’s so funny. I’m just picturing my children literally just sprinting to get some random toy that they have to have at that exact moment. But then you think about teenagers and they’re the complete opposite. It’s almost like society came and was like, “No, you got to look slow and cool at all times.” And so That’s where it breaks unless you’re part of a sporting club. Yeah, I I get people messaging me um like quite frequently like I’ll get a message at least once every couple of weeks saying how do I start running? And I just say to people like um well just walk run like you go run for run for one minute or you pick a point up in the road like a couple of lamp posts ahead and run to that then walk for the same distance then a week later like you know maybe increase the run or you know run for 2 minutes walk for one minute and just do it until you know eventually like in a month or a couple of months you you’ll be running non-stop but I think a lot of people probably men in particular they’re like oh yeah well when I was in school I could do a 40minut 10k I I’ll put on these touch rugby shoes that I haven’t worn for 8 years and I’ll do it again and then they’ll realize they can’t and they’ll get despondent and give up. It’s hard, but it’s worth pushing through. Yeah, I think that’s like with a so with the smashing PBS concept, the idea that you’re always trying to better yourself or be your personal best self. I think That’s a really interesting thing that you touched on. If you used to be good at something, then you had a period of time where you didn’t do it. your personal best is still back then but you’re not taking into account all the other factors that have brought you to your current state. So you know years of not doing it as an example or perhaps if you’re a parent having to wake up in the night or um if you’re working a a high pressure job like the extra hours and the mental stress that that brings. So people yeah it’s interesting that you become despondent because you’re it’s almost like the personal best concept is working against you in this in this example where you’re thinking back to a time where you could do it you could do it. Um, but you almost have to kind of reset every time and go, what’s my personal best right now? What’s the best What can I do? And did I run yesterday? No. But am I Did I run for five minutes today? Yes. So, that’s your personal best right now. Yeah. I love the concept of this podcast, by the way. I I think it’s great. It’s about being as as good as what you can be at any given moment in time. And it’s no good comparing there’s that saying comparison is the theft of joy. Like, there’s no good comparing yourself to anyone else. Like, there’s no way I’m going to compare my runtime to your husband’s run time. He’s a savage. Um, and also I’m not going to compare myself um, you to me 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago. It’s just being the absolute best I can be in whatever I’m doing right now. It’s funny that you brought him up. Um, when I when I spoke to Brent about it, um, he was saying, well, you know, you do get to a point where you can’t keep shaving a minute off or whatever it is, but then you might go, okay, well, I’ve done the best I can in this discipline. Maybe I’ll switch it up a bit. So, if your distance is like doing a 10k really fast, maybe you’ll start trying half marathons and, you know, getting your PB there. And maybe if you’ve if you’ve done all of that, maybe it’s like ultras, which is like a whole, you know, you’re never expected to run the same pace for shorter distances. So, you can always kind of like find another PV to get. Maybe it’s like trail running or something different. 100%. Yeah. And and the PB can be something different to like time doing the fastest time possible. It might be like um a longer distance. It could be anything. There’s actually um you know Elliot Kipchigible. Yes. Yeah. The greatest marathon runner of all time. So he was at the Sydney Marathon recently when I was there. And his his times are getting slower and slower. Interesting. So he’s not he’s not like dominating the way he did like even, you know, 5 years ago or 3 years ago. But he’s still running. And um there was a quote I saw on Instagram. It was something really cool. He was like, “People keep saying to me, you know, when are you going to retire? You’re ruining your legacy.” And he goes, “But that they don’t understand. Like I just love running and I love inspiring other people to run.” And I thought that’s really cool. Yeah. That is Imagine like imagine that he’s never going to run probably a flat 2-hour marathon again, but why should he stop? No, he shouldn’t. You’re so right. Yeah, it betters himself and he enjoys it. Yeah, That’s so cool. Well, talking about races, I want to hear about one of your races. Is there one that stands out that you’ve done over the years? Oh my god. Um, yeah. Oh, yeah. Go on. Go on. I think there’s a story I’m trying to uncover here. Let’s see if we get there. Tokyo Marathon 2018. Um, that’s the first and only time I broke 3 hours in a marathon. That is so cool. Clap. That’s incredible. I ran 2 hours 57. I’ve been It was a goal to break 3 hours in a marathon. 3 hours is sort of like um I don’t know. It’s like the the every man’s Everest or the every man’s Olympics. Like It’s pretty incredible. I mean that that’s pretty fast. What pace do you have to be doing it for three to break three hours? 4 minutes 15 per kilometer for three. Still really fast. And Harry Styles did it as you know just a few weeks ago. He’s a rock star. like he’s and he did it too. He’s done it. He’s done. Hey, but the rock stars of today, they’re not the rock stars of our time, you know. They’re wellness coaches, you know. Yeah. But it meant a lot because I think it was so hard. Um like I was working with a coach for like, you know, maybe 3 years, 4 years. Um, we went through a few marathon cycles. I could see my times going down, then they’d go up again, and they’re down. And you have this, you’re battling with this internal, you know, dialogue where it’s like maybe I’m just not fast enough. Maybe I’m not cut out for it. Maybe I choked. I don’t know. And then um eventually, yeah, the Tokyo Marathon in 2018, everything just came together and I got to, you know, halfway 21ks, like a minute undertow. And then you get to 30ks and I’m still on time. So cool. Then you start doing this mental arithmetic like even if I slow down to 4 minute 30 per kilometer, I can probably still do it. Then it gets to 35ks and you’re like, okay, even if I cramp up now and I have to walk, I can probably still do it. And then it just like nothing went wrong. The wheels didn’t fall off and I did it. And I can’t tell you how satisfied I was at the end of it. So amazing. When you did that right run, did you um have someone running alongside you the whole time or were you by yourself in your own run? Oh, no. No. There were people running. Yeah. alongside me the whole time. Were they in your little group? No. So you run I mean you were together but you’re alone. Like Yeah. So you’re in your own head. You’re not like no one’s pacing you. No. And that takes its own strength. Yeah. I think I’ve done so much training at that pace. The hard bit Especially early on, it was like running. I say that slowly. I mean 4 minute 15 per meter is still really fast but you’re so well trained and you’re trained to do 42ks. So the um the temptation in the the first 10ks is to to go even faster cuz I feel amazing and it’s like everyone feels amazing at the beginning of a marathon. But you didn’t this time you just did it all properly. No no I stuck to it and everything came together and it was like perfectly executed. Fantastic. So much work went into it though. And then what happens after? So, you get your medal, then what? Did you have a A bit of a party? Oh, yeah. I know. I was just elated. Hey, I was so elated. It was amazing. That’s so cool. Um, and what was Tokyo like? Oh, incredible. Yeah. This is the first time I’ve been there. And there’s um so you’re walking around on day one and you know, you’re waiting at a like a red light to cross the road and you’re like, “Oh, this is taking ages.” So, I just like jaywalk and I did that a few times and then you realize no one else is doing it. They’re all rule followers. Rule followers. Yeah. So suddenly you just comply. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Cuz you realize I don’t want to be that guy. I don’t I want to be the one guy that’s crossing the road when everyone else is waiting. That’s a funny thing to remember about Tokyo. And I had the cleanest butthole I’ve ever had. There’s beds everywhere. Like you go hilarious. You go to a cafe, you use the toilet. There you go. That’s why you did such a good run cuz you were just, you know, you were cleansed inside and out. But isn’t that such a problem like running? Never been lighter. So good. So good. Okay. Look, so I’ve heard some rumors that there was one race that you did. Something happened in it. My god, this is such a long time ago. Maybe h I want to say like 2008, 2009. So 10 years before Tokyo. Yeah, ages before. Um, so I was training for the Oakland Marathon. Okay. So I would have been Yeah. like maybe late late 20s or maybe early 30s at the time. I want to say the during the training cycle there’d be some stuff like uh if I had a steep hill to run up or if I tried to introduce any speed work um I’d suddenly feel really really sick like and there were training runs often where I’d just like be killed over I’d be vomiting like bile on the side of the road and I’d be gray in the face then I’d walk. These weren’t signs for you. These were you just probably thought I need to push myself. I know I look like an idiot. Um and this is a very important message. I just sort of thought, okay, well, I’ve started running again as an adult. I’m old. I’m older now. Um, this is just like this is what happens when you get older. So, I had all these warning signs and I ignored them all. Fire out. Well, part of the issue as well was so that these things would happen when I’m running, but by the time I get I’d get back home, um, my my sort of body had regulated and returned to normal. Okay. So, it was never a case of getting home and being able to go to the doctor and the doctor being able to work out what was wrong. Interesting. only came out while you were running, while you were pushing yourself. Yeah. So, it just happened while I was pushing myself or while I was going up up the hill. So, anyway, I I got through the training cycle, got to the start of the Oakland Marathon. Um, and then around about 3ks, 4ks into this 42k Oakland Marathon, it started happening and I was like, I was feeling really *** and I shouldn’t have been that early in a run. And then, um, you ran past the first, um, drink station and there was a St. John’s Ambo there. So, I was like, “Oh, this is amazing. I’m going to lose some time, but this is an opportunity to get this thing checked out while it’s in real time. So, they put like a blood pressure thing on my arm and did the Yes. thing. And then the guy that did it, he was like, “Oh, Well, that doesn’t look right.” He goes, “Hang on, I just got to go and check my supervisor.” And then I could hear people outside like, so supervisor came in and they did it again and he was like, “You shouldn’t be alive.” Holy crap. whatever it’s supposed to be. There’s two numbers like 120 over 90 or whatever. It was like it was like like What was it? Do you remember? I can’t even remember. It was just like it was like comically high and I was like okay well that’s good to know. And by then I was feeling better. So I was like okay well I’ll keep running and then I’ll how about you give me your number and I’ll message you afterwards. He goes no you can’t go anywhere. So then they made me lie down. So again like it had been like 5 or 10 minutes and I felt fine again. Um but they made me lie down and then they this seemed a It’s a bit dramatic. They um they had the sirens on and they were like weaving through traffic. It was like guys calm down, you know, call your jets. Yeah. So I got to hospital and then um there was just I like they kept me in for like just a series of tests. They were doing like ultrasounds and all these different things. There was some enzyme in my blood which um is apparently um there when you’ve had a heart attack or a stroke. So they thought it might be that. But they did all these tests and it turns out there was this um tumor growing in my adrenal glands. Holy. Um and it had been growing for years and years and years. So it was like a like a 9 cm ball, but it wasn’t protruding. It wasn’t visible or anything. Have you ever felt it before? No. No, you don’t. Yeah. You don’t sit there and prod your own stomach, I guess. No. Well, even if you prodded your stomach, you couldn’t like you couldn’t find it. It was really well hidden. Um but it made perfect sense. So whenever I tried to like push it and was doing activity that would raise my heart rate like it would just um secrete like extra adren adrenaline into my into my bloodstream cuz there was other things as well which I just completely ignored like um if someone like turned in front of me in traffic and I had to slam the brakes on suddenly I’d be like jittery like I just had half a dozen anytime like anytime there was adrenaline basically. Yeah. Wow. So they they took this tumor out and um It was a bit gruesome but did you see it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They got photo just like a just like a ball of blood. But it was massive. And um as soon as it was taken out, my life changed like drastically for the better. Wow. Um so I started running again and running felt so free and easy and it was like, “Oh, this is amazing.” Okay. Out. I can’t believe it. Imagine if you hadn’t decided to go to that like to the St. John’s that day. Like if you’d kept going like what would have happened? It would just get bigger. Well, they say eventually it would have just killed you. Jesus. Wow. Oh, Well, glad to have you here. Yeah. So, running sort of saved my life in a way. It did. It did save your life. I know you have a book about um what’s what’s your running book called? It’s called Running a Love Story. Okay. And it was it was basically just about my journey into into running and then and then the quest to break three hours. Yes. Now, the the horrible thing about it is the book originally came out like a year before the Tokyo Marathon. Okay. So the idea was I was sort of writing it in real time and it was going to conclude with the Berlin Marathon and I break three hours and you know that just didn’t happen. I ran like 3 hours 5 3 hours six. Um so the conclusion was you know sometimes in life you you try your best and you don’t get what you want and that’s blah blah blah blah blah. I can’t even remember how the The ending was. And then thankfully a year later when I did the um Tokyo Marathon the publishers were like oh do you want to do an updated copy? And I was like yes I do. I do. So you actually updated it. So there’s two versions of the book. There’s there’s one where it’s like oh life doesn’t play out the way you want. But both of them are special in their own way. I feel like you know resilience. We all talk about resilience these days but Every time you fail you do become a little bit more resilient. Well you learn nothing from your successes. Eh it’s quite funny like it’s on my podcast the Dom Harvey podcast. I’ve had like heaps and heaps of high performers on and um high performers that have been through some sort of adversity or some sort of big loss. Um A lot of them they think about it for days, for days, weeks, months, years. Look, I had um Lori Mains on who was an all black coach in the 90s. He was the coach that um they didn’t win the World Cup in 1995. He told me like 30 years on, he still thinks about it most days. Then I had Haish Kerr on who won a gold medal at the Paris Olympics in 2024. And I said, “How often do you think about that win?” He goes, “Oh, not a lot really.” Wow. He goes, “If I pull the medal out cuz I’m going to a primary school, I’ll think about it, but otherwise not.” It’s funny, eh? So you the negative stuff that’s the stuff that sticks with you that you think about for you know forever. But the wins they’re easy to sort of brush off and dismiss. Yes. Often the wins are the ones like you Yeah. You’ve kind of made it and so you’ve ticked that box and you’re straight away onto the next one. You’re I like waiting for that. Whereas if you’re Yeah. It’s those losses that help actually shape you into a better person or a better version of yourself. Absolutely. It lets you know what you have to do differently or I love that. Smashing PBs is brought to you by Forty Thieves, award-winning producers of New Zealand’s tastiest peanut butter, almond butter, and superfood butters. Every spoonful is packed with protein, healthy fats, and all the goodness you need for fueling everyday and epic adventures. Grab your next jar at your local Worth’s, New World, Pack and Save, and the warehouse supermarkets and start smashing your personal bests. Okay, I want to talk a A little bit about radio. Um, how did you get into radio? Um, yeah. What are your Best memories from the years in radio? I wanted to get into radio from maybe the age of like 12. Okay. Like we went on a a school I was at an intermediate in Palmer North and we went on like a school field trip to the local radio station there. And up until that point, my perception of work was that something that um was a means to an end. Like I I’d see dad go to work every morning and I’d always come home grumpy. Yeah. wearing the sort of clothes to work that I’d never wear around the house and I thought, “Oh, that’s that’s what that’s what adultting is.” Um, and then we went on this um intermediate trip to a radio station and the guy that was on the air, he was like smoking a sigh, but he looked like a cool guy. Um, and just had like a t-shirt and some little shorts on and handles and I was like, that’s the sort of clothes I want to wear to work. Um, and I thought that’s a cool job. So, the the seed was sort of planted then and uh, so that’s why I got into it and um, I ended up You’re just having like a 30-year career in two stations. That one station in Palmer North. How long were you there? Like 10 years. Wow. And when I left there, I swore I had such a great time there. And I I um had this fabulous mentor who I did a breakfast show for like 10 years. And I swore that I’d never stay that long in one place ever again cuz I got in a real comfort zone. Yeah. And then I went to the edge and I stayed there for 20 years. That’s even like double. You doubled it. Yeah. Yeah. I never learned. Well, um, okay. So, what was it about the mentor that made it like made that Is the first station so good? Oh, well, his name is Mike West. He was there forever. Um, He was just really, really good to me. Like, I look back now, I was chaotic. Okay. So, you did 10 years of just like cruisy job, enjoying the radio station, but you weren’t, you hadn’t pushed yourself yet out of your comfort zone. No, not at all. Not at all. How do you decide to get out of your comfort zone and start running again? No. Start changing jobs? Well, it just sort of just sort of happened like the opportunity came up to work with um JJ who I’d started seeing. Oh, here it is. So, so yeah. So, we got the chance to work together. Um the the the station The Edge and the station that I was at in Palmer North were part of the same company. And the boss was like, “No, Dom’s too important in Palmer North. We don’t want to take him out of there.” And JJ, yeah, you need to stay where you are. So, then the opportunity came for us to get a job somewhere else. So we were going to like leave and go to and work at ZDM together. So the boss of our company was like, “Okay, fine. We’ll get Don out of Palmer. You can work together.” So we did and and then um I guess the morning shows that when you started on the morning show that was born. Yeah. Okay. And then how long did you stay there? 20 years. The same. Yeah. It’s incredible that So it means that like all your listeners, myself included, um kind of grew up with you guys like listened to everything evolve and change. Um how does Yeah. How does it feel being like s so public and knowing that yeah every day that you come in and all the little bits that you say are being heard by everybody sitting in traffic. Well you cuz that happens a lot. People people will be like um oh you know I used to listen to you and the the when you with mom when she was giving me a ride to right to school in the car and I’ll be like oh my god we did some really inappropriate stuff. All I can think about is like it’s like there’s a virtual filing cabinet in your mind and you’re running through just all the awful stuff we did that but you guys got you were allowed to, right? Yeah. Well, it was appropriate at the time. Yeah, I see. I see what you’re saying. But you’re like, “Oh my god, hopefully you weren’t listening when we did this thing or that thing.” Oh, man. But it was like who came up with all the ideas? Like did you guys I mean, as you said, you were chaotic in the previous one. Were you just you just would come up with it on the spot or was it um planned sometimes? No, so much planning. Yeah, so so much planning and the the more planning you do, the more sort of spontaneous and off the cuff it can sound. But yeah, so much so much planning went into it. Um, can you give me one example of something that you did on the that you look back on and it’s cringeworthy on the edge? Oh my god, where do I begin? Where do I begin? Oh, we had this this one thing where um I might get some details of it wrong, but the gist of it will be right. So, we had a brother and a sister and their dad come in one morning. Okay. And the idea was that the brother and sister had to kiss for 30 seconds. That is inappropriate. Like it’s it’s it’s it’s incesty, isn’t it? Yeah. Okay. Um, so their dad was there like watching while they did it and then at the end of it the dad had there were two envelopes on the desk and the dad who just watched his son and daughter like have a romantic Oh, like 1920. Oh, okay. Um, that would not go down today. No. No. But the thing is it was this time where like Jackass was on TV and um It’s a shock. Everyone’s trying to shock you all the time. Yeah. Then I suppose it was the beginning of like YouTube and people you know there were fails on YouTube and stuff and then when you start doing like daring or risque stuff there’s you have to like keep escalating it. So anyway like um so the brother and sister kissed and then at the end there were two envelopes on the desk and the dad had to open open I think there was like $500 cash in one and zero in the other and I think they won nothing. That is okay, that is wild. You look back now and it’s like oh what were we doing? Um, yeah. Like from the position where I’m sitting in now, like as a like a 52-y old man, would I listen to that and think, “Fuck, this is crack up. This is funny.” Probably not. I just I think it’s stupid. I suppose there were two groups of people. There were people that they’re like, “Oh, this is crack up as Yeah, we love the edge.” And then there’s people that end up like this listening to the Edge because they’re in a gym and it’s playing or they’re car pooling with someone else or whatever. And the other people that go they’ll go to work and go, “Oh, you won’t believe what I heard on the radio this morning.” and they were the edge had this brother and sister having a kiss and then anyone at that yeah there’ll be some people at the workplace that don’t listen that are appalled by it there’ll be some people that don’t listen and be like oh that sounds crack up as I can listen to that so it was sort of um the mindset back then was like any publicity or any talk is good talk like the the worst thing that was dropped into us was that like you’re beige or you’re bland or no one’s talking about you see so we were sort of encouraged to like push the push the envelope as much as what we could how did that um impact you as a person like did you just the whole time think it was crack up always or did you sometimes go ah I’m not really doing What do I want to be doing anymore? Yeah, a lot of the time it was that. Okay. So, and then is that what ultimately like is that why you ultimately finished up or was there another reason? I I think after after 20 years you’ve done everything you can and it’s just not bringing you the same satisfaction and if if like if I if I look back now I’m being completely honest about it. Um, it was probably fear of doing something else. And have you heard have you heard the saying like golden handcuffs or it was probably like that. Like radio generally pays pretty *** but if you if you’re good enough and you’re there for long enough, the money ends up getting pretty good. And I remember like one of the last interviews I did before I finished it was during um it was uh it was during the pandemic. It was with um Justindra Adun as prime minister and I was like grilling her about Harry Styles not coming to New Zealand because the borders were still he he was like I’m gonna have to cancel my show because I can’t do two weeks in a MIQ slot. So I was like having a go at her and then After we got off the air she was joking with me. She was like she was like oh you you just get to own me on the air and talk talk crap about me and do this and you probably earn more than me. And at the time I think I was earning more than that. Um, so it was probably fear of of not being able to do anything else or not being good enough. But then so then I I eventually like made the leap. I had a break and I started up the podcast again and I feel really good about it. Amazing. Tell me tell me more then about about um so we talked about the beginning of the podcast. Um but how do you tell me about it now? How often do you record and yeah what do you like about it? Well I do two episodes per week. So one every uh one every um Sunday night and one every Wednesday night. Um, so it’s a lot of content. It’s a lot of work. Wow. As you must be finding like doing your podcast now. Um, but it’s re it’s really cool and it’s at a point now it’s been going for like almost 4 years. Um, I get so many people messaging me now like pitching pitching people on as guests or asking to be on sort of pitching themselves which is really cool. What’s your criteria? How are you deciding who gets to come on? It’s just if I think it’s going to be a good story. Obviously, um if it’s someone well known, like it definitely helps if there’s that name recognition thing, but some of the best episodes I’ve done have been like people that most people wouldn’t have heard of, um but they just have an incredible story. And if someone messages you and they’re sort of pitching themselves, then it means they’re prepared to talk and share their story. That’s true. Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. Just because you’re wellknown doesn’t mean you are going to allow certain layers, you know, to be exposed. So, 100%. Yeah. whereas someone who might have like less to lose ultimately they might share you know stuff that people can really I guess uh connect with. Yeah. Interesting. Um and what about you? Like how much do you give away about yourself on the podcast? Well, the good thing about my podcast is not too much. I can just I just be there as the host and prod the guest. Although sometimes I do. It’s like a give and take. Like a vulnerability exchange. like if if someone’s um yeah if a guest is a little bit closed then I I find if I give away a little bit more of myself they sort of open up a bit more. But um it’s a nice space to be playing in now cuz like on radio we we gave away a lot of ourselves to to in order to make that connection with people that are listening you know they they have to you know have to sort of like you or feel like they can connect with you or relate with you in some way. So, I’m enjoying that about the podcast, like not having to completely sell my song. And what about um owning Pod Lab? Uh why did you decide not why did you decide to actually open up a studio? I mean, you could have just continued recording and and doing that, but you decided to take it one step further. Yeah. So, um I turned the uh the spare room in my house into a podcast recording studio and um so if you listen to those episodes, like the quality is fine. Um, but you can sometimes hear motorbikes going past or sirens. There’s always something. So, it wasn’t soundproof. And then so I was sort of looking for a space and this space came up. Um, and the timing just sort of worked out. So, I thought, well, I’m only going to need it for like two sessions per week for my podcast. So, for the rest of the week, um, yeah, why don’t we like rent it out to other people and help Do other people make their podcasts? Amazing. So, I’ve been going for a year now and it’s bloody great. I’m Yeah, I mean, I love being here. It’s so exciting. But how are you finding like owning a business? Like what do you bring, what does that bring to the table? Like is it are you in your comfort zone or is it totally No, no, absolutely not. Um I’m I’m just so lucky that I’m surrounded by a great team. Yes. Um so um JJ owns the company with me. She’s my ex-wife. We’ve got Jazz studio manager and um now we’ve got Sha who’s um working on the team as well. And they’ve all got skills that I just don’t have. Wow. Um, so it’s um it’s amazing though. I love coming to work each day. It’s the For the first time in my life I’ve had a proper 9 to 5 job. Um, and I’m just loving it. And even even though I’m not not making any money like so sha who we’ve just met on board, she said this morning, “Yeah, I get paid today.” And I’m thinking to myself, “Huh, that must be nice. Let me know what it’s like. I’ve been running this business for a year and I haven’t got paid yet.” Oh my gosh, no. It takes time. You know what it’s like. Have you and your husband been doing um the peanut butter? So, yeah, Forty Thieves has been going for 9 years. Um and no, 100% we you always prioritize everybody else and everything else before you pay yourselves because you know your own capabilities. You know, you can like you can suck it up because you got a greater goal. And so, but it does get to that point where you go, hm, at what point do I start prioritizing, you know, our own I guess our own salaries? Um we’re not there yet. So, I mean, we obviously have to pay ourselves to live, but it’s not um it’s Yeah, it’s it’s never glossy like It looks like I don’t know about Yeah. when you look at Instagram or the TV or whatever, it’s uh it’s Yeah, it’s constant hustle mode. Um cash Flow is always a challenge. You know, you’re always I think we had a meeting with the bank this morning, you know, trying to hustle together some more cash so we can buy some more machinery. So, it’s uh forever you’re kind of just building this engine, building building building, and at some point, you know, it’s it’s I mean, it’s it’s profitable on paper, but at some point it can it pays you the salary that you hope for. Yeah. But also, like you guys have done this. You’ve built something really cool. Anyway, how do you feel when you see the Forty Thieves jar? I mean, it feels like look, it’s awesome. Um, and we it’s it’s such I must say it’s still a pinch me moment when you walk into the supermarket and you’ve got like a display there, you know, a whole massive stack of a thousand jars and you watch somebody that you don’t know. Actually, you can open it. That one’s Yeah, that’s for you. You got to get a bigger scoop. I I just tasted your blood, sweat, and tears. It is. It is. I know. I know. I know. 100%. There it is. This is so good, by the way. Best peanut butter. It’s my favorite. even before you came to Pod Lab to do your podcast. Thanks, Dom. For me, what I find most fascinating about someone like you is that you are very public facing and you I mean, every time I come in here, You’re always very positive and you’re very inspiring. I mean, Everyone still has bad days. Like, how is it any like what is your how do you look after your mental health on a day-to-day basis? I mean, I guess running is a big tick there, but what else helps you? Oh, it’s it’s a it’s a like it’s a whole thing. Yeah. It’s the the exercise thing. It’s getting enough sleep. Um It’s like I make some appalling lifestyle choices. Like I still drink way too much soda. I’ve got a real sweet tooth. I love junk food. Um but I’m I’m good at sports. I had to get mentally unwell to work out what I needed to avoid. I see getting mentally unwell. So now I now I just I I know the signs and I know when it’s slipping and I can sort of catch myself like if um like say say I’m in the coffee shop and there’s someone in front of me and they’ve got like a big order or they’re taking their time. If I find myself getting like frustrated or anxious or yeah just irritated then I can I can take a step back and go okay you this isn’t right like you you shouldn’t be bothered by this. So little little things like that, it lets me know that my mental health isn’t where it should be. How did you figure that out? Trial and error by falling into the depths of despair. I mean, you it’s so hard and this is why I think it’s so important to have these conversations cuz looking at someone like you and talking to someone like you, you’d never imagine that was possible for you to be in a position like that. So how did you get there and how did you get out? Ah, I think I I think I just got there by neglecting it and not thinking about it for years and years and years and then suddenly there’s this cumulative effect and you find yourself in a situation where I mean at my at my lowest like there were times where I was like oh like I never like I never planned to kill myself. Um but there were times where I was like well I mean if I drink two bottles of wine tonight and I don’t wake up it wouldn’t be the end of the world, you know. Yeah. And I went to see a therapist and the therapist said to me um in this one conversation she was like, “Have you ever thought about taking your own life?” And when I took it I paused for a moment. I thought, “Do I answer this honestly or do I you know, That’s the thing. We have the ability to just go like, “Oh, no.” You know, like it’s not like we’re It’s not Yeah, we can see through the questions. I mean, health professionals, I think I filled out a form like that one time and and it was like, “Have you thought about this, you know, how many times? Three to five a week or you know, it’s like very like Yeah. and you know the right answer and you know the wrong answer. And I was like at that moment I was like, “Oh my god, if I say yes, I might be committed. I don’t know what’s going to happen.” Um, but I took a deep breath and I was very courageous and I said, “Yeah, yeah, I have.” And this lady, um, and this is the best answer ever. It made me feel so good. She just shrugged her shoulders. She goes, “Uh,” she goes, “It’s not a big deal. Like it’s an option that’s open to all of us at any time.” Wow, that is so I was like, “Huh?” She’s like, “Yeah, I mean, you could just you could stand up now, walk out, and jump off that balcony, and it’d be over within 7 seconds.” And I was like, but it was actually quite refreshing. It was quite freeing hearing that cuz she was she was saying, “Yeah, it’s an but that might not have been the right thing to say to some people.” Oh, I didn’t realize we were five stories. Thank you. Bye. No, it was really good. It just made me feel less aligned. Um Yep. Yep. Yep. I understand. Um, so that was Yeah, that was really good. So, what happened next after she told you that? What did you do? Well, I paid her 250 bucks for the session and you walked down and you went down the lift. Yeah. No, I just I found that really good and I was like, I just don’t want to you Well, I suppose you sort of reach a crossroad. You’re like, well, do I want to keep living feeling like *** or do I want it to end? And I I didn’t want it to end and I didn’t want to keep feeling like *** So then you have to take proactive steps to um to fix yourself and heal better again. But um going through mental health stuff like uh I mean it’s like it’s not nice to go through but it probably if if there’s lessons or you know takeaways it’s probably made made me more compassionate, more empathetic to other people who might be going through the same thing. AB even someone even someone that’s just being an *** Like if someone’s an *** to me in traffic, I’m like *** they must have some serious stuff going on. They shouldn’t be that wound up because this just happened to them. So it’s Yeah. And actually before that before getting um uh to that point myself, I I was probably a bit callous about mental health in terms of I I maybe thought it was like a hoax or a myth. Like if someone was um if someone was suffering depression, I’d probably be like, “What do you mean you’re suffering depression? Go out for a run.” Yeah. Go for a run. jump in a nice bath. It’ll be all right. So, it gave me a greater sort of understanding of it. Well, yeah, that’s so interesting. It’s almost like there’s the you need Sometimes you need that triage. You need to be able to solve that problem straight away to get you out of that depression or out of that whatever mental illness you’re going through. But then once you are out, then it’s those healthy habits that help you stay out. And I mean, what you said about knowing even just feeling that agitation that’s like a sign for you. I think most people they can’t pick up on that stuff. I mean, yeah. How like that’s quite incredible that you’re able to to line up and feel feel a feeling and then being able to like label it, not just like let yourself continue in that feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It’s like taking a like a like a like a drone eye view on yourself and go, “Wait, wait, wait. Why are you so wound up? Like, come on. You’ve only I have been waiting in line for 3 minutes. That’s cool. Chill, you know?” Um, So yeah, I’m probably just more in tune with myself now. Wow. Incredible. Um, what what would you say to someone else who’s I guess in a in a space where they feel like they can’t get out? Um, there’s that saying that I really like. Um, this too shall pass. Okay. You know, it’s like um if you’re going through bad stuff like you just got to keep going cuz it’s going to pass. And but but the same thing like when things are good in your life, you keep thinking they’re going to get better. Hey, this is how I look. Oh, okay. Well, yeah, we’ve had the most profitable year ever at 40. is going to be even more profitable. But what whatever you’re going through, it’s going to pass. If things are good, don’t get too wrapped up in it because that’s that’s not going to be That’s real. That’s true. It might get better, but it might get worse. Um if things are bad, they might get worse, but it might get better. But Whatever you’re going through, nothing’s going to stay the same. It’s going to pass. Um so hang tight and and just try and work out what it is that’s um that’s going to make you stop feeling like *** Yeah. This is just this isn’t professional advice. This is just my own experience. Yeah, I feel like I mean yeah, I mean we heard about your professional advice just a moment ago. Sometimes it’s the personal it’s personal stories, people that you look up to or people that you can trust and it’s like knowing that They were able to overcome it. Those are the ones that actually help you. Um I I Recently I got back to running quickly. I I recently did like a panel for something um like a woman in business and I mentioned that I run three times a week and I said look there’s four other days that I don’t run. I’m like if I can do it like anyone can. I mean, you can run slow, you can run for like just a couple of is, like whatever it is. Anyway, I had three people, three different people message me being like, one of them was like, I just did my first run in 10 years because you inspired me, you know, and it was I was like, great. I’m so like it’s so d you like someone like me it’s like oh well if she can do it but like it’s it’s it’s such a nice feeling to know that it’s those personal stories you know like when you read an article by someone you don’t know or you know it’s a someone you haven’t listened to in radio for 20 plus years like it just feels it feels too foreign like as you said like made up like as if depression is made up but if it’s someone that you know and or that you trust that gives you that advice you’re more likely to take it. Yeah. Just you said someone like me. What did you what did you mean someone like me? I mean what did you mean? You’re a savage. But you you’ve got this kickass like brand that you guys have built from the ground up. You’re a mom. You’re getting the Look, I do. Thank you. Thank you. I um look, I I definitely um I do a lot of things, but I’m just one of those. I’m just like a classic allrounder. I’m not like good at any one thing. I’m just okay at lots of things. So that’s what I mean. I guess it’s just like someone who’s just like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If if I I guess if if Brent for example has a very good runner stood up there in front of the woman, those women was like and well, you know, and he said, “Oh, I run like five times a week and every Sunday I do, you know, 20k 28ks at this particular pace.” They’d be like, “Oh, I can’t do it.” But, you know, like knowing like Yeah, exactly. Can’t relate. So, I guess I’m I’m just a relatable human. Your everyday everyone’s Yeah. One thing, one thing you learn even like everyone’s dealing with *** That’s true. And everyone’s got flaws and imperfections and things that they’re insecure about. Even people that people that that don’t show some people don’t show up because they’re embarrassed or ashamed or whatever. But everyone’s everyone’s everyone’s dealing with stuff. So, I don’t I don’t mind sharing um anything or everything. E. Yeah. Yeah. That’s brave. That’s brave. I think Yeah. A lot of people would like are too scared to see what the reaction is to sharing their stuff. But yeah, That’s an inspiration. And I feel like that that helps you continue to be your personal best cuz there’s nothing hiding in the shadows. Everything’s out in the open. I like that. Awesome. All right. How do we go? How do we go, Dom, as a pro podcaster? How do we go? The first half of this podcast has been here. Oh, okay. We’re getting a message on the screen. The guest is here. Okay. *** All right. This has been so great. I’ve I’ve been um yeah s sitting out in the office watching you uh as you’ve done like the first eight or nine episodes of your podcast and just seeing you grow through this is really inspiring. Only another uh how many thousand hours to go. Okay. Well, now I know you’re a crunchy crunchy guy. So, uh um yeah, I’ll uh we’ll do our Forty Thieves. See you out there smashing PBs. I can eat this with a spoonful. Like I’ll hide in the corner of a kitchen and get a spoonful and yourself. Put it online. Okay. Now, but does that make me a monster? No. No. Absolutely not. No, that’s the way to go. I bet you would say that. You got skin in the game. Oh, I’ve got skin in the game. Eat. The more you eat, the better it is for you. Share. You’re the best. And I love Forty Thieves. Thanks, Dom. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of Smashing PBs brought to you by 40 Thieves, New Zealand’s best peanut butter for fueling everyday and epic adventures. If this episode inspired you, please like, subscribe, and share with like-minded legends. Now, go grab a jar of Forty Thieves from your local supermarket and start smashing PBS.
