Thanks, Shyr. Thanks. Uh yeah, thanks for making me the guinea pig of your first podcast. But uh no, it’s very inspiring to see what you’ve already achieved.
You live and breathe the idea of smashing PBS. Um, so yeah, I love the idea that
um, you know, we can all get out there and improve on ourselves um, and you know, become our own personal bests and I thought um, having you on the show, we’ll give everybody a bit of context about, you know, some of the behind the scenes of 40 Thieves um, and also a little bit deeper into you as well. So, welcome.
Cool. Well, let’s get stuck into it.
All right. So, you’ve been active your whole life, swimming, water polo, track, um, life saving, surf life saving. Have I missed anything? Uh, cross country.
Oh, yes. Okay, that’s a good one. I think um you did a bit of tennis and you dabbled in a few other sports.
Yeah, I think sporting sports just been a a massive part of my life um growing up um ever since a child um since school and then yeah, even getting into my into my career after university. Um, sports always been there uh on on the side and yeah, it’s just been such a big part of my life and it’s such um a wonderful outlet.
What role did it play in your life growing up? Um, do you have any Yeah, if you can imagine yourself as a child. Um, what were the mornings like getting ready? Paint the picture of a little blonde Brenty
growing up. Swimming was my main my main sport. And um yeah, I think the the role of sport was um as especially as a school kid is it kept you out of trouble. Um you’d go to school and then straight after you into sport. So for me it was swimming before in the morning and then swimming in the afternoon as well. Especially as a teenager that made sure I kind of uh hanged out with the the right crowd. Um, so other athletes that were, you know, really focused, um, had a lot of drive, ambition, um, and yeah, I guess it it taught you discipline. Um, and, uh, yeah, it’s, uh,
yeah, it kind of just shaped shaped your your dayto-day. Um, it I guess all the all the spare time you had, you slotted sports in.
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, I think um there’s so many times where I bring up TV shows from the ‘9s and you didn’t watch them and it’s because you were you were too busy playing sport all the time. So, there’s so many things that I I’ll say, remember when you know this particular TV shows on. You’re like, no, I was playing sport.
Yeah, it’s pretty true. Um yeah, you wake up 5:30, I remember going to swimming, winter was horrendous. It was like cold in the mornings, get in the pool. Um then by 8:00 you’d be at school, you’d finish up at 2:30 and then go home for a quick hour and then back back in the pool again at 4 4:00 and you’d be finished at about 5:30 again.
Come home um I I remember just eating so much as well. Like I would eat half a loaf of bread and um before dinner and and yeah, I would I would eat peanut butter on on bread. Um my my mom um I mean was concerned about like how much I was eating in terms of the grocery bill and she wanted something that was nutritious um and that could fill me up. And I literally actually started eating peanut butter on bread. Um and then I’d have a full plate of dinner but do some homework and by 8:00 I was back in bed conked um passed out and ready for the next day.
So, I think most people that know you now know you as a runner, but as you say, swimming actually played a really big part in your upbringing. From my understanding, you you trained for many years, as you say, twice a day, but then one day you just stopped.
Yeah, swimming was amazing. The community is incredible. Um, you’re kind of all in it together. Uh, it’s not the easiest sport. And, um, I remember we’d always get to the pool half an hour early. Uh we’d have our rubber bands, we’d warm up, we’d be doing our stretches, um building in a bit of strength, um and and just warming up outside of the pool and we’d have like really good chats and we really got to know each other as a community um from like the 10 year olds right up to like 18 20 year olds um where did you look up to the older guys?
Yeah. Yeah, there’s a a really good mate of mine um who I’m still in touch with now and um yeah, he was very inspiring. the the swimmers. Yeah. Were like really good, inspiring people and hardworking. Yeah. Just incredible drive. And um yeah, then then after the warm up, we’d jump into the pool. Um we’d be swimming up and down. And it’s it’s monotonous. It’s quite a different environment when you’re in there. Like everything is blocked out. All the noise is blocked out. And you just hear the water whispering uh past your ears. And you’ve got this black line, this solid black line. You just go up and down. And you just know this pool so well. You know almost if there’s a little bit of sand that’s that’s dropped in or if there’s a bird poo that’s dropped in. You know exactly where it is in the swimming pool and you do your tumble turns and you’re up and down and you can almost like count your strokes and you could probably swim the lane with your eyes closed. You know it that well. Um sounds quite a bit like meditation actually.
Yeah. It’s I mean we talk about mindfulness today. I think that was like a very early stage of mindfulness for me. Um it was I mean you got so many different pressures. You got you know social pressures and school pressures and delivering on homework and having that outlet for an hour and a half in the morning and evening. It was literally like a bit of meditation but at the same time you’re working the body and and at the end of it like you never want that like I remember my my mom taking me to the pool and I I a lot of the time especially when it’s cold, it’s wet, it’s raining and it’s just like I do not want to go swimming today. Um, she would be like, “You’re going. I’m paying for the lessons. You’re going.” So, and it’s expensive. So, we would go, “I’d jump in the pool.” After about two, three laps, I’m like, “I’ve got this.”
Nice.
At the end of the session, like you never came out of a session and said like, “I wish I didn’t do that.” Like, you always feel so good afterwards. You’ve you’ve you got the endorphins running. You’re feeling warm. Um, you’re with your mates. And it was just such a great feeling.
That’s so interesting. So, why why did you stop? What age were you got to your what early 20s? Is that when you stopped?
Yeah. So, I probably started I started swimming really young. Um we had a pool in our house and um I I I could swim at three already. Um took on squad swimming, early squad swimming at like 6 years old. Um and then from about 12 onwards was we started training like every day and 15 it was twice a day in the pool. By the time I got to 18, I was sort of nearing the peak. 17 18 was the peak of my swimming career and I’d finished school, got into university. Um, and I did two weeks at orientation um of university orientation. There was a Yeah, it was I I’d never been a drinker. Um, but um there was a there was a booze bus, what they called back then. and it was like a double-decker booze bus and we’d go on a pub crawl and I remember getting a little bit drunk, took two weeks off, enjoyed the orientation and I thought I could get back in the pool after that and continue from where I left off. Um, and I really remember this feeling cuz I jumped in the pool after 2 weeks and I always I was always the leader in my lane. So, in a squad, you’ve got different lanes and it’s all seated in terms of priority, in terms of speed. And I was like either in the fastest or the second fastest lane and um I would always be leading my lane, but after being taking two weeks off, I got back in the pool. And I had the next guy behind me like tickling my toes. And you did that if you’re too slow. So, it was like letting the guy in front know, hey, you’re too slow. my turn to take over leading the lane
and I was just like it was just like defeating and I was like I can’t even take two weeks out and your performance starts to drop already and I was at I guess a pivotal moment in my life where I would either continue with this extremely hard training or make that decision to like have a social life your youth.
Yeah. Enjoy enjoy university and um and and the rewards that come with it. And I think at that moment I decided I’m probably not going to continue with swimming and I’d reached the top goal and to get to that next level to I’d made the provincial team and to get to the Olympic to get into the Olympic team was another level which I didn’t see myself getting into. So I made I made the decision then and I’ve hardly swam in the pool since.
The funny thing is you say you’ve hardly swam in the pool but every time you do get in a pool you just glide. You look like a fish. So it’s obviously um technique that just stays with you forever. Um, even I know you’ve done a couple of triathlons and and people often struggle with the swim leg, but you it’s such a second skin to you that you’ll like jump in the pool uh in the ocean or wherever you know the triathon takes you. Um, and you’ll just smash out that leg and and yeah, somehow it’s still forever a part of you.
Yeah, I think yeah, once you’ve got the style and the stroke, you do have a a level of efficiency. Um, as long as it’s less than a kilometer the distance, I could probably maintain it. Um, yeah, I’ve done a few short course triathlons and they they’ve yeah, they’ve been about a 400 meter swim, so technically still a sprint, so been able to get out get it out the way pretty quickly.
Oh, well that’s yeah look I I’m for someone who as I say not an athlete um but just you know dabbles in a bit of running um I to get to that level is just extraordinary and then I think it’s just um understanding that it it seems like oh but you were nearly there but it’s not that it’s not that that’s not the case. it’s um you you actually have to continue at that high level constantly all the time and with that comes um a sacrifice of of so much other stuff. So yeah, I guess you wanted to enjoy your 20s, enjoy university, go out partying, um you know, meet young people and and have fun and and I guess it’s a when we are all watching the Olympics, it’s a good reminder like how much those guys have had to sacrifice together.
Incredible. Yeah. And even the level today, the youth of today, like they they pushing new barriers. Like we thought we were like at the frontier where we were at when we were training and now you look at the distances that that the kids are doing in the pool today. Like a 10k session is pretty normal now.
Wow.
But back then it was like you’d do a few of those over winter and and and that was a big effort.
Amazing. Well, I um Okay, so up to so back to running, which is your current discipline. Do you have a memory of when maybe a race from when you were a child or you know a moment where you realized you’re actually quite good at that?
Yeah. Um that’s a good question. So I think the very first memory I had was I was about 6 years old. Um I was at primary school and it was our first ever cross country race and um the course was run along the 100 meter track out around the block and finish up back um on the school grounds and um there’s a whole bunch of us all sorted on the line and um yeah we went out the school 100 meter track school gate together we’re all all jostled together running together like in a bit of a pack all these little six-year-old kids Um, and I remember feeling that little bit of pressure, a little bit of discomfort. And I thought, I’m just going to keep pushing that. Um, like if I if I want to win or do well, I need to just keep pushing that. I didn’t know at the time what that meant. Um, but as I was running, like I guess 50 m went by and there was like fewer kids around me. Another few hundred meters went by and there’s like one or two kids next to me and I just kept going. I saw the first marshall turned past went went past that first marshall went down to the next marshall and all of a sudden I looked behind and there was like there’s no one else around me and it was this bizarre feeling of being alone uh up at the front and not quite understanding or comprehending it. Um
are you thinking where did everybody go?
Yeah, cuz you as a kid you you know you’re constantly involved with your mates and you’re very social and there’s and then all of a sudden you feel this sense of being alone and it was just like whoa what what is that? Um and then coming through and finishing up running down the 100 meter track on your own. It was just like this massive rush. She had the parents all shouting and and and and and cheering you on and it was just this incredible rush and finishing that was the first race I’d run and won it and from there it was just like this natural high that I’d never experienced before and that was my very first memory um of actually like a competitive race.
That’s incredible. 6 years old and uh it was already Yeah. That I mean that’s that whole nature versus nurture in your case. Well, I guess it’s always a combination, but you you realized pretty early on that you you were naturally capable and then I guess you had to put in all the work to to continue it. Yeah.
Um that’s amazing.
And I think a lot of that I could probably attribute to swimming from like a a young age like building a a strong heart and lungs and you can I mean swimming is just such a great foundation and you can transition it to so many other sports that are involved with cardio.
Well, I am fascinated with the correlation between
pushing yourself physically
and how that impacts the rest of your life. So, I would love to hear your thoughts on how, you know, running 40 thieves, um, the day-to-day, you know, as operations and finance director, how sport may have helped you.
Running a business is not easy. Um, and I think if you were to compare that and like maybe take some learnings, um, being a competitive swimming was not easy.
You you got to be completely dedicated for a long time and and be prepared to to work really hard. I think there’s lots of different elements like one you have to be dedicated um understand what the vision is and and motivation and and have the drive to push towards that goal and knowing that it will eventually pay dividends. So in my swimming career it was like to try beat your personal best or um win races. And I think same in business, we’ve we’ve got our goals and we want to get to them. And it’s something that, you know, you and I do every two months. We sit down and we look at what are the strategic goals. And we’ve got sort of like you’re saying, um, four different buckets.
We’ve got sales and marketing and brand. Um, those are the two buckets there.
Um and then we’ve got our team which we look at which is you know how do we create the best high performance team and the culture that goes with that.
Um and then the finance and operations piece. It’s like
and it all comes together and I guess we translate those long-term strategic goals um into the dayto-day. Um and if when you look back and you see like what we’ve achieved, it’s just that’s the get that natural rush again from Yeah. you get from from starting this business.
I love I love that comparison. I guess um on paper you’re so right like when we write down everything that 40 Thieves has achieved so far it’s quite incredible but the reality or the behind the scenes is that the dayto-day is is pretty
I it can throw anything at you. Um could you describe a day in the life uh of running 40 Thieves?
Yeah. So I guess like we we’ve got those two months objective that we the more longer term um goals that we try create which is 6 12 24 months. Um and that all falls into what we’re doing on the dayto-day but then
the reality the reality is chaos. Um, it’s constant firefighting. And while you chiseling away at those longerterm goals, you get an email in from a supplier who can’t deliver jars or uh you’ve
um had to all of a sudden drop everything to create a new production plan because we’ve got this massive export order that we need to deliver for Singapore. Um or the hoist has stopped working and all of a sudden got to fix it quickly or try to get a maintenance crew to fix it. um or the production line the filling machine stopped working um and you’ve just got so many hats and I think at that at the current stage of our business is yes we’re growing really fast and we are getting to a bigger size um but we still very much in between like middle management and senior management so we very much hands-on and doing the day-to-day but then also trying to drive the vision and mission of the business as well.
Yeah. No, that’s awesome. Maybe for those listeners who actually haven’t heard of 40 Thieves um Nut Butters yet, uh maybe you could give just a quick snapshot of where we’re at right now in the business, year nine.
So, this has probably been the most exciting year of starting the business. Um and it’s amazing that after 9 years in that we we’re still getting so excited about what we’re doing at 40 Thieves.
We’ve recently gone on to the warehouse. We’re now selling in the warehouse.
We’ve just had a category review with Food Stuffs.
Um we’ve had our peanut butter core ranged in all new worlds um and all pack and saves which is a massive win.
Um up until now we’ve only had um six pack and saves on board and now we’re going to be in 45 pack and saves throughout the country.
Um we’ve already seen 500% growth in pack and saves and I mean I think this year is going to even be better than that.
We’ve taken on a few new overseas markets. We are now in South Korea and uh we’ve also been selling into Singapore and we’ve just been ranged in Fair Price. So we’re already in cold storage uh which is one main supermarket in Singapore and uh the other main supermarkets in Fair Price. So we’re going to now be in both which is a huge win.
Uh and then we we’re in Taiwan, Malaysia and Giant Gross in Malaysia and we’ve got some other opportunities that we’re looking as you know that you’re currently working on overseas. Um, so yeah, it’s it’s just been amazing to see all this growth and it’s such a fun brand to work with as well, I guess. Like it’s so cool like creating the product on the operation side um and becoming more efficient over time uh with better investment in machinery and creating this high performance team that we have.
But then also on the marketing side and the brand story, it’s just like more and more people are getting to hear about 40 Thieves. our brand awareness is growing and um it’s got such a great story and I I love what we do which is our mission is fueling everyday and epic adventures and I think it’s just resonating with more and more people um and yeah
yeah it’s almost like people are um you know in the digital age uh where everybody is you know we can’t help it we’re all attached to our phones it’s like an extra limb we’re always looking um I feel like I’m sure the research is coming out but yeah I think it like muddles your brain a little Um, I feel like, you know, it’s more important now than ever before to be focusing on movement, heading outdoors, hopefully leaving your phone either in your bag or in the car. Um, and and actually just looking at nature.
Um, you what you were saying before about hearing those like noises in the pool. I mean, that’s incredible. I I can’t imagine many people are focusing on those kind of noises right now in this digital age. Um, but I love that our mission is fueling everyday and epic adventures and and I guess
yeah, I I I I think you’re saying more and people are resonating with the with the message and the brand. Maybe people are realizing that actually that’s that’s kind of what makes life worth living is going outdoors, doing doing that kind of hard stuff, listening, using your ear,
pushing yourself out of your comfort zone
and um yeah, and feeling really good for it at the end of it.
Yeah, I love it.
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So, when we first met, um, I’d literally just started running. I I had um one of my flatmates had said, “Oh, why don’t you I wanted to exercise. Um I think I just moved out of home and I was eating too much. I was, you know, I stopped growing. I was a I was 19 years old, so couldn’t, you know, the food had to Anyway, uh I my I didn’t have money for the gym and I was at uni and my flat mate was like, “Why don’t you go running around the block?” And I remember saying, “Running around the block. I’m not going to that’s not me. I don’t do that.” He said, “Just give it a go.” Okay. So, I did it. Anyway, I met you a couple of days later. Yeah. And I remember you said to me, “Oh, what did you get up to today?” And I was like, “I went for a run.”
And you were like, “Oh.” And I remember.
Yeah. And I remember being like, “Oh, he liked the idea that I went for a run.” Um, so at the time, anyway, I ended up going on like a streak for like seven months of running every single day. Just a short amount, not very fast, etc., etc., but I did it. Um, my question for you is what would our relationship be like if I guess I hadn’t got into running at that time? Um, or yeah, what what do you what do you think if we didn’t share this thing? What what would be different?
Um, I think yeah, running is a is is uh is something that you’re passionate about. And so in this case, we’re both passionate about running, which is really positive cuz I think we have a realization that we both have a little bit of give and take. Um, so, you know, we make time for each other to get in that exercise and to go for for your run. Um, I think we both realize that working at 40s is highressured. Um, and it’s such like both of us after a run feel so good. We’ve got mental clarity afterwards. We’ve got endorphins. The mood’s so much better. And you’re just a better human and person to run your team, to run your family um after the run.
So I think we realize I think if you don’t run um or if you haven’t started running yet
or any exercise, I guess for that matter.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, you probably don’t realize the benefits that running gives you,
but it doesn’t mean that if you don’t run, I think as long as you still got a passion for something.
True.
Um, and realizing if somebody does run and some and someone else in the relationship does not run, as long as you give that person the space to do what they need to, um, yeah, I think you can make it work. Um, so whether it’s a creative outlet or music outlet or, you know, even just going for a walk. Um, yeah. So, it’s just finding the time and giving each other that space to do what you need to to be a better human.
I like that. I like that. No, that’s good. You answered well. You didn’t say uh I wouldn’t have uh stuck around, so that’s good to hear. Thought I’d put you on the spot.
Um, no, that’s super interesting. I think um, look, obviously I’ve tried to run with you and you are way too fast for me. I think the only time I’ve ever been able to keep up is when you were recovering from pneumonia. Um you you’d had two two weeks off and I think it was your first run back and it was like the first time that I was like, “Oh, look how fast I am. I’m uh I’m keeping up with Brent Godfrey.”
Yeah. It doesn’t matter if one person is slower or if they’re doing, you know, it could be just walking or whatever, but I think that’s what’s so cool about personal best is that you’re not comparing to the people around you. You’re just comparing to yourself and you’re just trying to push yourself to what you’re capable of.
Yeah. I think that’s that’s a really good point like um and such a great podcast as well because it’s all about smashing your personal best. Um so it’s getting out there like I mean we’re Dom Tom Dom Harvey um who owns Pod Labs who we doing the podcast with today we we’re actually chatting about it earlier um and we’re talking about times and he’s like oh wow I I don’t even think I can do one kilometer at that time. Um, we’re talking about pace and then we’re talking about Kip Chigiblei who’s like, you know, the marathon world record holder and I was like, I can’t even do one kilometer at his time. Um,
there’s always someone better.
There’s always but it doesn’t matter because you’re just pushing to your best.
Yeah. Even if you’re shaving off, you know, two seconds off your time, like that’s your new personal best and you’ve got a new new goal to strive towards to be better. Um eventually I guess you get to a point where you can’t actually beat your time anymore.
Yes.
But then you start to look for other challenges that you can do. So like um maybe you can’t do your personal best in road running, but then you start to take up um off-road running. Interesting.
And then you try to do new PBS and off-road running or you do you challenge you constantly challenge your yourself. And I think that that’s so cool. Um yeah
I actually yeah I I have more on that. I think um there’s also a part so I guess when you look at times or personal bests it’s very focused on that moment you know like what you achieved in that moment and it’s only about the running but I guess as a mother of three and you know coowner of 40 thieves there’s so many other things that go into like your life and so for me right now I’m not running that fast but if I think about all the other things that I’m managing and I’m still managing to get out there for a couple of runs a week for me that’s my personal best for right now. Um, and I think yeah, I guess like
what you were saying, you you might switch discipline, but or you might be just taking on other parts of your, you know, in your life that are kind of like what you said about uni. Um, you could have you maybe you couldn’t swim as fast, but maybe holistically you were you were a little bit happier because you got to you got to do some fun stuff and hang out with some cool people.
Yeah. Yeah. There’s so many different stages in life and you just got to make the most of each stage. And yeah, right now like what you’re saying about your stage and where you’re at in life, you’ve got you’ve set yourself new targets and personal best um for outside of work and and then your exercise and yeah, it’s just about making sure you you progressing and continue continuing to try break what you what you’ve set yourself.
Yeah. No, that’s great. Um on that note,
yeah,
races. So you’ve obviously done a lot of races. I’d love first of all maybe just share your best time for say I don’t know what’s your favorite what’s your favorite uh distance?
Um I wouldn’t say it’s my favorite distance but it’s probably the most challenging distance is the marathon.
Okay. So what’s your best time in a marathon?
Um I I in New Zealand I did the Oakland Marathon last year and my best time in New Zealand is 238 um for the marathon.
That’s very fast.
Uh yeah I um
What did you come um in the race? I think I got 11th.
That’s pretty cool. So, yeah,
I I can’t actually remember. I think I Yeah, it was nearly the top 10, I think.
Yeah, that’s very cool. Um, what about Yeah, I guess that’s I mean that’s 42 km of just push push push the whole time. What goes through your head? How how do you do you sing? Do you talk? Do you chant? What on earth? What are you doing? What are you doing in your brain when you’re in there?
It’s it’s a long race. So when the when the gun goes, yeah, you you feel really good at the beginning, but you got to pace yourself. Um, and normally the first thing I do is I look for other runners that are sort of like similar pace to me and try to form a bit of a pack. Um, and this last race that we had, um, the Oakland Marathon was was pretty windy and it was really great forming a pack with similar likeminded individuals and people I hadn’t actually ever met before as well. And people are cracking jokes like there there’s
so you guys can actually talk while you’re running at
Yeah. We throw a few words in and we cracking jokes and um it’s all all fun and games for the first 32 km and then the marathon actually starts.
Okay.
So the last 10 that’s the killer.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to get to 32ks feeling comfortable and the last 10ks is when when the hard work actually starts. Um and that’s when you got to push. Everyone’s everyone’s hurting and by that stage it’s just like holding on and and um yeah, no there’s no more talking after 32 km. It’s just like head down focus and trying to get to the finish line.
What um what about a race that hasn’t gone your way? Um that’s you know you’re sort of describing your your best case scenario. What what’s the worst case scenario?
Yeah, I think um if I had to look back it was probably a surf life saving race that I did. Um, I’d been training all season really hard on the Malibu board. It’s the board that the long board that you um have and you kne down on it. Um, and yeah, I’d been really working on that craft. Um, and I in the in the in the squad training, I was I was coming out like top and I was confident I was going to win this little carnival. And I think I wanted to get the edge and my dad had just bought me back then what these goo gels and
Oh yeah. pretty popular now.
Yeah. Yeah. They’re they’re new and
vintage.
Yeah. And um I I thought I’m going to get the little bit of advantage on my uh on the competition. I’m going to pop this goo gel um before before um before the race. And I remember I spiked in sugar just as I as I had the goo gel. And I just crashed. Like I had the sugar crash. I hit the water. The first like 200 meters out to the can was really great. And I was just paddling, paddling, paddling. And then I just crashed. And it was like the worst feeling I’d ever had. And everyone was just passing me
and it was almost like I just couldn’t go. And I the key learning for me from that day was like you got to train and use the nutrition you’re going to use on the race.
You don’t you don’t you don’t try something new.
Don’t try anything new on on race day. Um, and I know now my body doesn’t react very well to sugars before a race.
Um, so I I always fuel with something like um oats and nut butter. Um, I try to keep it to to like complex carbs and and good quality fats um before a race, but then during the race I’ll use goose still um or more teen gels um cuz once the body’s going needs that little
it needs it needs the sugar. your body can still absorb the in you’ve got the insulin, you can absorb the sugar and continue racing.
So yeah, but that was probably one of the worst races I’d ever had. And I remember crying on my board out there
having worked so hard all season and then trying to paddle back and it was just yeah real real devastating.
I guess that builds resilience like if you don’t fail then you don’t know what to change and and you know you also I think you when you do fail at something you eventually you get over it and then you realize oh okay if I can fail at that well failure is not actually as bad as it as it seemed.
Um is that is that the case for you or is there is there any examples where you can bring like acceptance of failure into your into your work life into 40 thieves?
Yeah, I mean we’ve failed so much and I think and I think that’s the key thing is like fail fast, learn and um and fail less often.
Um so yeah, I think it’s like it’s better to fail earlier on. And I think a good example, you probably remember the tears from this one, is we we had
uh we’re so excited um about scaling up 40 Thieves and we’d been making nut butters and blenders up until this point, selling them at farmers markets.
These are the early days.
The early days staff members, me and you.
Yeah, we did everything together. And um
we I don’t know how many blenders did we get through about four blenders. And then we realiz we realized, okay, business is scaling up at the markets.
We need to buy a mill.
We we’ um we’d saved up enough money um we had some funds that we brought over from Sydney and we put quite a bit of money into this mill that we had bought from China. Um not doing a lot of due diligence and just thinking, hey, buy any mill and it’s going to work.
Anything could surely be better than those blenders
than them blenders. We brought over this mill and we roasted up some almonds, I think.
Yes. And we were using the oven.
Yeah. And we chucked the we chucked the almonds in and it just came out as this dry, lumpy paste. And
I can I can see it.
And it was the slowest moving thing I’d ever seen. And after all this investment and sweat and tears, I was just absolutely devastated with this piece of equipment. And I was ready to throw in the towel there and then. Wow.
But we we kept going.
That’s crazy. I mean, that was year one. That was that was really early days. Um, but you’re right. Like, it was better to fail then than like now we’re literally in the process of of buying some very expensive machinery. And you are meticulous. You you have watched when most people sit at home and watch videos about cats. Brent watches videos about peanut butter machines. So, I’ve been
Yeah, obviously that’s uh that’s currently on the cards. We’ve got a brand new line coming in. But maybe that early failure has has helped make sure that this time
Yeah. We got really robust systems now and
processes in place. Well, when we do now acquire new equipment. So, yeah, I guess it’s taking those learnings and applying them
not being scared of failure.
Yeah, that’s right.
So, we obviously with those new machines that we’re talking about, um, we showed our team. Um, I did want to talk about the team a little bit. Um, yeah, I guess you know, you seem to know how to re-engage the team like there, like you say today, you mentioned no jars. That’s actually today’s problem. Um, but how how do you re-engage the team? Um, how do you stay calm and and lead from the front when when things go wrong? And do you think that your early days in sport and even as a as team captain and some of your disciplines, do you think that’s helped in the way you lead?
Yeah, I think um it’s it’s certainly helped. Um, so I was team captain of uh cross country, water polo, and swimming. Um and often like especially if you’re playing like a difficult sports team um you have to have a bit of a you know a scrum together what a huddle um and and figure out like what is the most strategic way that we’re going to put our team players in to to to win. And it’s almost like that every day. Um like we’ve we’ve got our team and we have a bit of a huddle most mornings. Um, and we figure out like what’s the day going to look like and what who’s who’s going to be best placed where um strategically for that day and to yield us the the best results. Um, so that’s what I like to call a high performance team.
So yeah, we um and I think it’s like you know captains the way I I was mostly captain was cuz you’d lead from the front. Um you’d lead by example. Um, and like you’d have to work hard and and push yourself, but then also there’s there’s a lot of pressure um, both in sport and in business. And when things do go wrong, it’s like not getting too worked up about it. I think
keeping your cool, not storming out.
Yeah. Yeah. um take like if you need to like you know often like I think that was a key thing like being captain in a sports team helped to build resilience which I could now apply to what we’re doing in our production team environment where you know often a machine will go down or break or things haven’t arrived perfectly and it’s so easy in a stressful noisy environment to get worked up and
vent almost. Yes,
but it’s staying calm, taking 10 minutes out and thinking of a rational plan of how we’re going to resolve it.
And every every problem has a solution, but you just got to step back and and calmly think about how how you’re going to create the solution to that problem.
You stop, you reflect.
Yeah.
And then you address the problem.
Yeah. I think the easy thing is to let the problem continue and exist or you can take it head on and you know as a team collectively come up with a solution or like what is the next steps that’s going to you know be the best for the for today.
Awesome. I love it. What advice do you have for someone starting out with running or a sport or even if you prefer what advice you have for someone who wants to start a business?
It’s good just to set up some small targets. Um it might be if you’ve never run before trying to run for 3 minutes and then walk for 3 minutes.
Yeah.
And then in 2 weeks time, you know, drop that by 30 seconds. Try run um try run now for 3 and 1/2 minutes and walk for 3 and 1/2 minutes.
Baby steps.
So yeah, just slowly increase what what you’re doing. Um and the other thing is to be accountable. So it’s like it’s really easy.
um like it they they say it takes about two months to build um
a habit.
A habit. Yeah. So if you can get to the two-month mark um and continue
that’s it. You’re locked and loaded.
You’re locked and loaded and you got the endorphins. You start to realize the benefits that running brings or any sport in that matter. But it’s good to have a partner that you can do it with. Um I I I know um for example um there’s a few days in the week where I meet up with some runners and it’s so easy just to continue working on the laptop or especially if it’s raining, it’s cold outside. You can it’s it’s just so easy not to go out and run and if I didn’t have other buddies that were waiting for me to meet up with
and go for that run, I probably wouldn’t run those days. So pick your pick a couple of people, similar pace, similar goals, and just Yeah. go together.
Yeah. So I think
when and you got to choose some you got to be quite selective with who you choose you’re going to partner up with. Cuz
if you’re the one that’s the motivator, well then then you need to help the the one that’s less motivated.
But you can’t you got to be careful like not choosing someone who’s also not as motivated as you cuz then you both aren’t going to succeed.
And then the on the flip side, the business. any any tips for anyone wanting to start a business?
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of perceptions out there that being a business owner has got a great work life balance. I I don’t think that always holds true. Um, at least not for us anyway. And it you got to put in a lot of hard work um to see that success and it almost feels like I’m back swimming but in a different arena this time, you know, like it’s twice a day putting that hour and a half in the morning and evening like working really hard. I don’t like I thought we worked really hard in Sydney when we did those 10 12 hour days and working in corporate
and um yeah I mean since starting 40 thieves like you don’t really ever switch off like but it but the thing is like we both like I think we realize um what we’re doing and the vision and the mission which we want to see completely through
and we’re really excited about what we do. Um, I think when you’ve got the passion, like, you know, I had the passion for swimming and running, like I’ve I’ve got that passion also for what we’re doing here. And I think it’s just such a great product that we’re producing and and um the mission that we’re pushing with with the people out there cuz we’re both involved in the business and it’s it’s also a great thing is that we can download with one another. It’s almost like you were talking about running and like how it’s good to find a partner that you’re accountable to. Um, I guess we’re both accountable to each other.
Well, we both look after different parts of the business. You more sales, marketing, I’m more finance, operations. Um, but we often come together with that strategic longer term thinking and we’ll often bounce ideas off one another. And it’s really cool to have someone who’s in the exact same position as you as your little training partner.
Yeah, that’s awesome. I’m stoked to be your partner in life and business. No, I think we’re, as you say, an awesome team. And I guess for for anyone wanting to start a business, it’s first of all, know what you’re getting yourself into. Um, yeah, social media makes it look glossy. Um, yeah, but in reality, not only are you putting in those 10 to 12 hour days, um, but you’re also sleeping and dreaming about it, too.
And I’d probably add just one more thing to that is that sometimes you do need a sprint in a race, like at the start, for example, a park run, you might be up at the front or even at the marathon, the start of a marathon, and you do have to sometimes put in that little bit extra. you got to sprint, but if you can’t continue at that pace, it’s not sustainable.
But you also don’t want to be out the back fighting people with pram and um and dog walkers cuz otherwise that’s going to really impact your your time.
So, it’s knowing when to sprint and when to work hard,
but also knowing when do you get to that that that
um level where you can just continue to maintain for the rest of the race. And it’s almost like that with 40 thieves. It’s like
some days you’re going to have to sprint to get ahead. um and put in that extra effort, but then there’s other days where you know like it’s not sustainable. You’re going to have to pull back when you can. Um and I think that’s probably the same in most businesses. Yeah.
And also for sport. I love it. Yeah.
That is so good. It’s almost that the es and flows. You you need to know when to Yeah. You need to know when to when you’re up when you when you can slow down a little bit and then you know there’s another another peak on its way very soon.
Yeah. I think um our biggest sprint that we’ve just had was the the category review with food stuffs North Island and um man I’m glad we sprinted for that cuz we’ve we’ve come out with some good results.
That’s awesome. Yeah, every single Newton pack and say we’ll have our peanut butters on shelf. So yeah, you’re right. That was that was the most epic sprint we’ve had. Um yeah, but I don’t know I don’t know when the downtime’s coming but but I heard you so I’m waiting for it.
I’m super super pumped about this very first episode. I think you blew expectations on how well it went. We’ll let the audience decide now.
Yeah. Yeah. But no, it was so good hearing you share everything. Um and I even learned a few things about you that I didn’t know. So there you go.
Great to be your um your first guest and um no, really looking forward to uh hearing the other guests that are going to be on this podcast.
Got a pretty cool lineup coming up.
I think I am probably like in terms of celebrity ranking like at the bottom cuz there are some amazing people coming onto this podcast next and I can’t wait to hear all of them.
I’ve got a final question. Uh smooth or crunchy? No, thanks for letting me be your first guest. And it’s definitely crunchy.
Crunchy. All right, I’ll see you out there. Smashing PBS. Nice.
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